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Regarding the new update

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Firef0x
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Regarding the new update

Post by Firef0x » Wed Sep 27, 2017 23:04 PM

I'll try to make this as calm as possible, but to tell the truth, it's going to be tough.

First of all, let's talk about ai sniffs.
The HC amount given by the old A.I sniffs was enough to not even collect your own miners, not hacking other players, not using viruses and other things in the game
Excuse me?
Let's take a look at an A.I. sniff by an average player. Let's say they have A.I. 14. a decent level. I have A.I. 13.5, so close enough. I usually got 20-25 sniffs pre-update if I'm lucky. Let's say they're all the max of 2500, and let's say there's 25 (this is being extremely generous. 1 in a billion chance, really.) That's 62,500 at most. But that's not realistic at all, so let's say 40,000 in a good sniff (still generous). Now let's say this player plays 3 hours every day (I believe most players play less than that). If said player hacks every 10 minutes, that's 18 sniffs. 18x40,000 is 720,000. Almost a whole million, in 3 hours! Wow! :roll: At 13.5, my A.I. takes 1,723,060 hc to get to 13.6. It would take 2 days; 3 hours every day; hacking every 10 minutes to get enough hc to upgrade the A.I. Since at that level it takes about 24 hours (I believe) to upgrade, there's an entire day where nothing is being upgraded while you sniff for hc.

This is scale-able. Other SW takes less HC (therefore less sniffs), but also less time to upgrade, meaning you will still have dead zones where you're not able to upgrade anything.

Then add in the cost of say, watchdog, ip changer, log delete package, 3-day history delete virus (if someone is annoying you), and it adds up to a LOT. Therefore, it never was viable to just hack every 10 minutes.

Oh, and sure you can also collect the miners of those you hack every 10 minutes, which would give you an astonishing
amount of 2,250,000 hc each day, assuming they all have regular miners, and are ALL full, which is unlikely. That adds up to roughly 3,000,000 That covers the A.I. upgrade, and some smaller software upgrades and watchdog (if you're missing it)! Good job, you're barely scraping by!


Phew. I'm glad I got that out of the way, because now it's time to discuss the new software! Yes, the FS Scanner!

Seriously? I mean, why? The old system was fine! This just makes it unnecessarily complicated. Also, we have a Target Analyzer that is nearly useless! So far, all it does is tell you if the player is online or offline, and I don't know if you need to upgrade it for it to tell you that (someone correct me if I'm wrong). And that's not exectly useful if you already left a log before even using it. Why not, instead of adding new software, add some capabilities to that piece of junk! But here's the icing on the cake:
with the new hardware (signal disruption unit)
.

Image

You're adding...more? Aren't you supposed to add something, iron out (most of) the bugs, and polish it before you add something else? TA isn't even useful, and since the Alpha server is locked (or so I've heard), the new SW and HW isn't even community tested before it goes into the game!

Mini rant:
Bugs are part of an electronic game, yes. Dev can't do as much since he's only one person, yes. However, there have even been people who volunteered their expertise in game and software development that have gotten nowhere. Dev, there are people volunteering their time to help you, and they're turned away while you continue the "I'm only one person" excuse! I'm sure you have a good reason for it, but

Mini rant out of the way, it is also stated that the FS Scanner must be "90% of the target's Antivirus". Well then. It's going to be pretty hard to use since people's AVs are already as high as most of their other software, and still being upgraded. It's like 2 people running a race: An average guy with a huge head start, and a slightly faster guy without the head start. Sure he might catch up eventually, but it would take a while.

The FS is also just another thing you have to upgrade, slowing down the upgrade process even further.

Alright, next topic.
The new drops have BBs, which i bet no one will complain about...
You know...I like that. He's right. Who can complain about that?
and Notes which gives you a chance to get IPs that were difficult to find before.
Hang on a second.
Hang on one heckin' second! Are you telling me my ip, or the ip of my guild (if I had one) can be leaked by something completely unrelated?! Because that's what it sounds like! I'm sorry, but if I work hard to keep my ip a secret, it better be a damn secret! Especially with guilds (Though we'd need a way to fix the single-player-inactive-guild thing. Idea below.). I wouldn't want my 799 bb wasted because of some random dude who hacked another random dude that has nothing to do with my guild or me.

IDEA! Make it so you have a chance of getting a note file with ips...from the history of the person you just hacked! Ok, I'm loving this idea. Many people save the ip of their guild to their history, and connect every 10 minutes during an ip change to get ai sniffs. This would discourage that, and it would be quite fair, if I do say so myself. Heck, I'm putting this in 'Suggestions'.

Anyways...
The old A.I drops were a bug in the first place, whenever i tried to fix it gradually people complained. so i kep it the same, which led to high level A.Is to get even more drops,
a.i level 100 gets about 100 drops a day
becomes 200 gets 200 a day and so on
which is unfair.

Interesting. I don't understand how the old way was a "bug", so idk what to say about it, other than the fact that it seemed fine to me. All you had to do to decrease the snowball effect is only remove the algos that upgrade the A.I. That way, it would take hc and time to upgrade it. Problem solved, isn't it? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
so after many tries to fix the problem without people complaining...
When was that? I don't remember anything. Maybe it was back in "beta" (let's be honest though, this is still beta quality), before I joined.
it's not your place to decide what i put in the game as the developer
Um...alright. However, as a developer, you should listen to your community and make decisions based on their opinions. That is the one big key to every single multiplayer game. I'll use Sea of Thieves as an example (look it up if you don't know what it is). It's an amazing game, and is being developed largely based on community suggestions and criticism (CRITICISM! It's a damn good tool for improvement! USE IT!) and it's working better than ever! Their forums are the #1 source of content that the devs add to the game. It's pretty much community made, and is getting amazing ratings!

As for Hackerz Online... it could use some work. I've seen some pretty good suggestions in the forums, but none of them, if any, have been implemented. I suggested a pretty good fix to the whole "foreign language speakers in global" problem. Scrap the local chats, and replace them with language chats that anyone can access. It fixes the problems quite nicely (my chat overhaul suggestion). It's fairly easy to implement, honestly. Just get rid of the local chats, and make a bunch of global chats with different languages, and use the moderator system that was used for the local chats (also eliminates the "all powerful global mods"). You'd also need an option in settings to show only the chats you want in that chat switcher thingy. But anyways, this post isn't about this. Let's move on.
2nd its shameful of you to ask for a bug that is causing unfair-play to remain in the game
Um...most of us didn't even know the snowballing effect A.I. "bug" existed. Also, I suggested an easy fix to that in this post. That topic's done now.


If you've made it this far, kudos to you. I know it was an extremely long post, even for me ranting, but it had to be said. Anyways, if you guys can correct me on anything, please do. Also, if you can improve on my suggestions in any way, DO IT. They're far from perfect.

TL;DR - I can't TL;DR this.

And finally...can someone please tell me how to change my forum name?! I. Am. Not. _Fawkes_!

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Firef0x
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Re: Regarding the new update

Post by Firef0x » Wed Sep 27, 2017 23:11 PM

Idea to fix the 1-player-inactive-guilds: If the guild has one player, and has been inactive for...let's say 5 days, then have the game create a mission to destroy said guild, and give it to the leader and colead of a few active guilds. 5 guilds seems reasonable? That would solve the problem, and give small guilds something to do if they happen to get the mission.

Mission time limit: 3 days(?)

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Re: Regarding the new update

Post by TimesOfGaming » Thu Sep 28, 2017 02:15 AM

Okay! My word what a long post! So I understand how you feel, and believe me others are feeling this as well. You have to look at it from both sides, one side you have top players who invested a lot in ai for constant instant upgrades to become way stronger, very quickly. My ai was 20, was getting at least 1 find, if lucky, every 10 min. Now picture, 100 ai getting 5x longer sniff, finding more, it gets outta hand quick. Also, with the old ai sniff I was able to stay in chat and when my hc got low hack 1 person and have 1mil. The second side, you have new people who will have a 1.0 ai, how are they gonna catch up with people who get so many algos at once it lags others? It's still day one of the update, I think it still needs more times and discussion.
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Firef0x
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Re: Regarding the new update

Post by Firef0x » Thu Sep 28, 2017 02:19 AM

TimesOfGaming wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 02:15 AM
Okay! My word what a long post! So I understand how you feel, and believe me others are feeling this as well. You have to look at it from both sides, one side you have...
Yes, it is day 1. However, the sooner it's brought to light, the better. The algos weren't exactly my main annoyance though. For me, it was mostly the new software thing and the "ips drop in notes" thing...Mostly the ips.

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Re: Regarding the new update

Post by TimesOfGaming » Thu Sep 28, 2017 02:24 AM

Firef0x wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 02:19 AM
TimesOfGaming wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 02:15 AM
Okay! My word what a long post! So I understand how you feel, and believe me others are feeling this as well. You have to look at it from both sides, one side you have...
Yes, it is day 1. However, the sooner it's brought to light, the better. The algos weren't exactly my main annoyance though. For me, it was mostly the new software thing and the "ips drop in notes" thing...Mostly the ips.
That has a chance, which addresses the 1 man guilds so they don't ever get ddosed issue most players have been having. Plus if your ip gets out what is the worst that can happen, someone collects from your miner or puts a virus on you? For guilds, I see a big issue there are so many guilds, like one person guilds that quit the game and can't get destroyed due to no co lead. This will clear up some guilds, and perhaps more changes to guilds in the future, so being in guilds together will have more of an impact making it harder to destroy.
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Re: Regarding the new update

Post by 1700 » Fri Sep 29, 2017 08:38 AM

The fact we were never made aware it was a big and were continuing to improve our AI because we were not aware of it, makes it negligent or fraudulent misrepresentation.

Romeowolf4093

Re: Regarding the new update

Post by Romeowolf4093 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 02:42 AM

Firef0x wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 23:04 PM
I'll try to make this as calm as possible, but to tell the truth, it's going to be tough.

First of all, let's talk about ai sniffs.
The HC amount given by the old A.I sniffs was enough to not even collect your own miners, not hacking other players, not using viruses and other things in the game
Excuse me?
Let's take a look at an A.I. sniff by an average player. Let's say they have A.I. 14. a decent level. I have A.I. 13.5, so close enough. I usually got 20-25 sniffs pre-update if I'm lucky. Let's say they're all the max of 2500, and let's say there's 25 (this is being extremely generous. 1 in a billion chance, really.) That's 62,500 at most. But that's not realistic at all, so let's say 40,000 in a good sniff (still generous). Now let's say this player plays 3 hours every day (I believe most players play less than that). If said playďer hacks every 10 minutes, that's 18 sniffs. 18x40,000 is 720,000. Almost a whole million, in 3 hours! Wow! :roll: At 13.5, my A.I. takes 1,723,060 hc to get to 13.6. It would take 2 days; 3 hours every day; hacking every 10 minutes to get enough hc to upgrade the A.I. Since at that level it takes about 24 hours (I believe) to upgrade, there's an entire day where nothing is being upgraded while you sniff for hc.

This is scale-able. Other SW takes less HC (therefore less sniffs), but also less time to upgrade, meaning you will still have dead zones where you're not able to upgrade anything.

Then add in the cost of say, watchdog, ip changer, log delete package, 3-day history delete virus (if someone is annoying you), and it adds up to a LOT. Therefore, it never was viable to just hack every 10 minutes.

Oh, and sure you can also collect the miners of those you hack every 10 minutes, which would give you an astonishing
amount of 2,250,000 hc each day, assuming they all have regular miners, and are ALL full, which is unlikely. That adds up to roughly 3,000,000 That covers the A.I. upgrade, and some smaller software upgrades and watchdog (if you're missing it)! Good job, you're barely scraping by!


Phew. I'm glad I got that out of the way, because now it's time to discuss the new software! Yes, the FS Scanner!

Seriously? I mean, why? The old system was fine! This just makes it unnecessarily complicated. Also, we have a Target Analyzer that is nearly useless! So far, all it does is tell you if the player is online or offline, and I don't know if you need to upgrade it for it to tell you that (someone correct me if I'm wrong). And that's not exectly useful if you already left a log before even using it. Why not, instead of adding new software, add some capabilities to that piece of junk! But here's the icing on the cake:
with the new hardware (signal disruption unit)
.

Image

You're adding...more? Aren't you supposed to add something, iron out (most of) the bugs, and polish it before you add something else? TA isn't even useful, and since the Alpha server is locked (or so I've heard), the new SW and HW isn't even community tested before it goes into the game!

Mini rant:
Bugs are part of an electronic game, yes. Dev can't do as much since he's only one person, yes. However, there have even been people who volunteered their expertise in game and software development that have gotten nowhere. Dev, there are people volunteering their time to help you, and they're turned away while you continue the "I'm only one person" excuse! I'm sure you have a good reason for it, but

Mini rant out of the way, it is also stated that the FS Scanner must be "90% of the target's Antivirus". Well then. It's going to be pretty hard to use since people's AVs are already as high as most of their other software, and still being upgraded. It's like 2 people running a race: An average guy with a huge head start, and a slightly faster guy without the head start. Sure he might catch up eventually, but it would take a while.

The FS is also just another thing you have to upgrade, slowing down the upgrade process even further.

Alright, next topic.
The new drops have BBs, which i bet no one will complain about...
You know...I like that. He's right. Who can complain about that?
and Notes which gives you a chance to get IPs that were difficult to find before.
Hang on a second.
Hang on one heckin' second! Are you telling me my ip, or the ip of my guild (if I had one) can be leaked by something completely unrelated?! Because that's what it sounds like! I'm sorry, but if I work hard to keep my ip a secret, it better be a damn secret! Especially with guilds (Though we'd need a way to fix the single-player-inactive-guild thing. Idea below.). I wouldn't want my 799 bb wasted because of some random dude who hacked another random dude that has nothing to do with my guild or me.

IDEA! Make it so you have a chance of getting a note file with ips...from the history of the person you just hacked! Ok, I'm loving this idea. Many people save the ip of their guild to their history, and connect every 10 minutes during an ip change to get ai sniffs. This would discourage that, and it would be quite fair, if I do say so myself. Heck, I'm putting this in 'Suggestions'.

Anyways...
The old A.I drops were a bug in the first place, whenever i tried to fix it gradually people complained. so i kep it the same, which led to high level A.Is to get even more drops,
a.i level 100 gets about 100 drops a day
becomes 200 gets 200 a day and so on
which is unfair.

Interesting. I don't understand how the old way was a "bug", so idk what to say about it, other than the fact that it seemed fine to me. All you had to do to decrease the snowball effect is only remove the algos that upgrade the A.I. That way, it would take hc and time to upgrade it. Problem solved, isn't it? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
so after many tries to fix the problem without people complaining...
When was that? I don't remember anything. Maybe it was back in "beta" (let's be honest though, this is still beta quality), before I joined.
it's not your place to decide what i put in the game as the developer
Um...alright. However, as a developer, you should listen to your community and make decisions based on their opinions. That is the one big key to every single multiplayer game. I'll use Sea of Thieves as an example (look it up if you don't know what it is). It's an amazing game, and is being developed largely based on community suggestions and criticism (CRITICISM! It's a damn good tool for improvement! USE IT!) and it's working better than ever! Their forums are the #1 source of content that the devs add to the game. It's pretty much community made, and is getting amazing ratings!

As for Hackerz Online... it could use some work. I've seen some pretty good suggestions in the forums, but none of them, if any, have been implemented. I suggested a pretty good fix to the whole "foreign language speakers in global" problem. Scrap the local chats, and replace them with language chats that anyone can access. It fixes the problems quite nicely (my chat overhaul suggestion). It's fairly easy to implement, honestly. Just get rid of the local chats, and make a bunch of global chats with different languages, and use the moderator system that was used for the local chats (also eliminates the "all powerful global mods"). You'd also need an option in settings to show only the chats you want in that chat switcher thingy. But anyways, this post isn't about this. Let's move on.
2nd its shameful of you to ask for a bug that is causing unfair-play to remain in the game
Um...most of us didn't even know the snowballing effect A.I. "bug" existed. Also, I suggested an easy fix to that in this post. That topic's done now.


If you've made it this far, kudos to you. I know it was an extremely long post, even for me ranting, but it had to be said. Anyways, if you guys can correct me on anything, please do. Also, if you can improve on my suggestions in any way, DO IT. They're far from perfect.

TL;DR - I can't TL;DR this.

And finally...can someone please tell me how to change my forum name?! I. Am. Not. _Fawkes_!

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UwZerokoolX
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Re: Regarding the new update

Post by UwZerokoolX » Thu Oct 05, 2017 13:23 PM

1700 wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 08:38 AM
The fact we were never made aware it was a big and were continuing to improve our AI because we were not aware of it, makes it negligent or fraudulent misrepresentation.
Negligent and fraudulent misrepresentation? The game (clearly stated in the Terms of Service) that the game is in alpha/beta stages. Which means it is still undergoing development, to include additions, subtractions, and adjustments of features and content.

Take note that nothing is set in stone and the developer does take and has implemented some user recommendations. It takes time to make these things from scratch.

Nextly, as far as "extra developers" are concerned. We really do love and appreciate users offering their expertise in helping the developer pick up the slack. However, the game code is kept private for a reason and that reason is that the developer does not want people making mistakes and/or stealing the code. Even if they were to sign an NDR or contract, you have any idea how much money it costs to hunt a person down, take them to court, and then hope and pray that the game code wasn't shared with anyone else? That is a huge loss that the developer cannot afford.

Now I'm not saying that everyone or anyone here who is dishonest is legitimately a bad person and would do that, however, it is not something that the developer can afford to risk.

So please, let the developer do what he does and enjoy the content that is provided to you.

This post is not just meant to cover one reply but also the original user who posted.

Thank you,
ILL|VDT|uWx|Zerokool-X

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